tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911650226122086220.post6411937418476064353..comments2023-10-29T07:38:08.820+00:00Comments on Something More Weekly: #262 Really basic thoughts on the existence of free willProfound Familiarityhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12327758193177032803noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911650226122086220.post-6937544630227049042017-09-27T18:11:45.803+01:002017-09-27T18:11:45.803+01:00If I didn't know I was about to snuff it (whic...If I didn't know I was about to snuff it (which would probably be quite crushing and spoil my mood somewhat) I'd probably get drunk with friends and family a lot, spend a fortune on living the high life and being pampered, treat everyone I cared for to whatever they fancied, and give a massive finger to the rest of the world.<br />Laughing and loving is often teamed up with self indulgence.<br />Fizzfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15690612271163437496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911650226122086220.post-733252833257027772017-09-27T16:46:27.136+01:002017-09-27T16:46:27.136+01:00Dan, you are more free than either Fizz or I, bein...Dan, you are more free than either Fizz or I, being tied down by neither spouse, child or job. You should shrug off the shackles.Running on empty https://www.blogger.com/profile/05668554083864151638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911650226122086220.post-19549456335115227912017-09-27T16:44:13.006+01:002017-09-27T16:44:13.006+01:00I think you have more freedoms than you realise. H...I think you have more freedoms than you realise. Habit can be a great inhibitor. Imagine that you were given a month to live. Then do some of the things you would do in that circumstance. Running on empty https://www.blogger.com/profile/05668554083864151638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911650226122086220.post-75552204048244381582017-09-27T16:41:37.520+01:002017-09-27T16:41:37.520+01:00I think about walking away from my current life of...I think about walking away from my current life often, then choose not to do it. Previous choices I made would have avoided my current dilemma, but I wouldn't have my daughter. Those choices were thoroughly researched, too. Running on empty https://www.blogger.com/profile/05668554083864151638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911650226122086220.post-59781120486692339752017-09-27T16:39:17.275+01:002017-09-27T16:39:17.275+01:00I'm fine thanks. yourself?
I couldn't post...I'm fine thanks. yourself?<br />I couldn't post the other day because Google decided I wasn't me?<br />Anyway - Free will is limited because it's complicated by options, experience, perceived outcomes, social standing, wealth, support and confidence. We can DO practically anything, but our learned or perceived consequences control us.<br />Thought is the only freedom we have but even that is driven by mood, hormones, experience, lifestyle, emotional well being, support, genetics and circumstance.<br />Maybe nothing's truly free?Fizzfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15690612271163437496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911650226122086220.post-66218299622821913452017-09-27T16:37:32.110+01:002017-09-27T16:37:32.110+01:00I can, but I'm choosing not to.I can, but I'm choosing not to. Running on empty https://www.blogger.com/profile/05668554083864151638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911650226122086220.post-36259893386196083822017-09-27T16:12:23.890+01:002017-09-27T16:12:23.890+01:00Surely our thoughts are pretty much as free (or no...Surely our thoughts are pretty much as free (or not free) as our will? I think most people find it hard to stop thinking, or start thinking about something from time to time. Plus, there are a lot of narrow-minded people, myself included, whose thoughts usually follow well-trodden paths, not always to the person's benefit.<br /><br />Glad to see you chiming in with your ten cents Fizzy. <br /><br />How're you?Profound Familiarityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12327758193177032803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911650226122086220.post-23039106311826725912017-09-27T15:30:28.923+01:002017-09-27T15:30:28.923+01:00Free will. Machines? The only options they have is...Free will. Machines? The only options they have is manufactured into them by people.<br />Of course proving that something might have happened can't be proven. It didn't happen. That doesn't mean it couldn't have done. A lot of what we choose to do is based on what we know not to do. Not because we've done it but someone else has and it's had a bad outcome.<br />How much free will we actually have is questionable and probably a good thing. Free thought? Thankfully unlimited amounts, well mostly.Fizzfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15690612271163437496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911650226122086220.post-57766758363846230422017-09-26T12:38:20.643+01:002017-09-26T12:38:20.643+01:00But you can't prove it.But you can't prove it.Profound Familiarityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12327758193177032803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911650226122086220.post-87267422949884738682017-09-26T11:51:49.400+01:002017-09-26T11:51:49.400+01:00Yes, the alternatives really could have happened i...Yes, the alternatives really could have happened if I, or we, had decided differently. Running on empty https://www.blogger.com/profile/05668554083864151638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911650226122086220.post-33924909888262257372017-09-26T10:34:38.955+01:002017-09-26T10:34:38.955+01:00So we're saying that because you struggle with...So we're saying that because you struggle with decisions, you have free will.<br /><br />We might then ask what does it mean to struggle with a decision? I can see how, when you're really striving and stressing over which decision to make, it'll certainly feel like a significant experience. You'll be having the experience of imagining the different outcomes, maybe thinking and talking about what a Christian should do in those circumstances. The difficulty, or if you like, the complexity of the decision would make it seem all the more real, maybe you get caught up in the decision-making process. Maybe it consumes you for a while. The more difficult a decision is to make, the more vivid and we might use a word like "heart-felt", the decision-making process becomes.<br /><br />Notice how, when you consider all the options, think about them and talk about them, you're still just imagining what might happen. It's something that takes place in your mind (or soul if you believe the soul's involved). You might make some plans or preparations but you haven't actually made the decision yet, you're just thinking about it.<br /><br />So when do the ideas actually happen? <br /><br />When they become real. We know that the thoughts aren't real. I mean, they are real thoughts but they're not real in the outside world. Like if a child can't sleep because she says there's a monster in the closet, we can look in the closet and see there's not a real monster in there. Then we could say to the child that it was just her thoughts.<br /><br />So, when you're deciding with two things and you make a decision, it feels like you're narrowing down the possibilities and in a sense you are. You pick an outcome and it happens. It becomes real. The question I'm asking is, what happened to the other outcome? The one that didn't happen?<br /><br />Well, that's just it, it didn't happen. The free will believer says "oh but I could've chosen that outcome if I wanted to" and I say "prove it". Go back in time throughout the whole of history and prove that every single thing that hasn't happened could have happened. <br /><br />It's not possible. <br /><br />Now what?<br /><br />Profound Familiarityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12327758193177032803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911650226122086220.post-12198996244972541822017-09-26T04:28:21.611+01:002017-09-26T04:28:21.611+01:00I can't speak personally for anyone else, but ...I can't speak personally for anyone else, but I know I have free will. Sometimes I have to make decisions against what I'd like to do, and have a real struggle of will. In matters of choices I tend to follow a logical path, either using the pros and cons, or logical consequences thought trails. There is overlap. Much of my decision making is informed by my Christianity. Running on empty https://www.blogger.com/profile/05668554083864151638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911650226122086220.post-23345464369325967512017-09-25T18:34:46.010+01:002017-09-25T18:34:46.010+01:00Ah ok so you believe there's a part of each pe...Ah ok so you believe there's a part of each person that can't be explained by science and may not conform to any known laws of nature. I tend to more or less agree with that because there's probably still a lot about the people that science doesn't know.<br /><br />How does that mean we have free will then? <br /><br /><br /><br />Profound Familiarityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12327758193177032803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911650226122086220.post-82965707648165355732017-09-25T16:57:24.181+01:002017-09-25T16:57:24.181+01:00Well here is the wordy version of what I believe t...Well here is the wordy version of what I believe the soul is<br /><br />https://www.catholic.com/qa/what-exactly-is-a-soul<br /><br />It is the supernatural part of all of us. Great artists of all genres can capture it. I saw my first hubby's soul leave his body when he died, in that the light went out of him. <br /><br />Running on empty https://www.blogger.com/profile/05668554083864151638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911650226122086220.post-91145933948733160202017-09-25T12:00:46.649+01:002017-09-25T12:00:46.649+01:00Saying that people are different from machines bec...Saying that people are different from machines because they have personalities is like saying bananas are different from oranges because they have banana skins. They do both have skins though. If we look at the meaning behind the word personality, it boils down to the qualities that make one person different from another. Machines have an equivalent because they have different features. We could call it machinality.<br /><br />Would you like to explain what you believe a soul is and why a machine (or human that behaves mechanically) couldn't have one?<br /><br />If we take sentience to mean that people are able to perceive and feel things, I'd agree that people have a much greater level of self-awareness than a machine but it doesn't seem to follow that because a person is sentient, they have free will. This is because people are able to feel things that aren't real. It seems possible a person could feel like that they have free will without actually having it.Profound Familiarityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12327758193177032803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1911650226122086220.post-7666091984866317302017-09-25T10:22:35.737+01:002017-09-25T10:22:35.737+01:00The difference is that people are not machines, th...The difference is that people are not machines, they have personalities and souls. They are sentient.Running on empty https://www.blogger.com/profile/05668554083864151638noreply@blogger.com