For about five years now, I've taken some interest in the teachings of a handful of spiritual leaders, most but not all of whom have either departed from mainstream religion, or augmented their interpretation of it through physical, verbal or written meditations.
When one comes across an individual behaving like a leader, who is not a priest or a bishop, for example, they can seem to be an enemy of a faith such as Christianity. Ironically, many guru's practices are compatible with the work of the church. Some compliment it. Afterall, Jesus' message was to love one another. To do that, requires the cultivation of peace within ourselves and to do that, many people choose to meditate.
Then there's the theory. Rascal gurus tend to be big on universality, which again is fine for Christians, who believe God is everywhere. You can't get more universal than that.
Religious and spiritual leaders always look lazy to me. That's because I only ever see them sitting around talking. I know they dedicate a lot of their time to good causes, get up at 5am etc. I'm not saying they are lazy. It just seems like a more chilled lifestyle than say, being a paramedic or a secular teacher. That may or may not be the case.
Like the religious chieftain, a spiritual leader caters for those who believe or otherwise feel that their life needs guidance. In a cult, the intensity of that factor often increases to the point where the guidance is all but absolute. The opposite situation would be where, through guidance, an individual becomes self-actualised and realises they can guide theirself.
In an interdependent world, how could such self-actualisation be possible? The answer, apparently, lies in realising the nature and extent of one's interdependencies. The nature of oneself, the nature of the world and the nature of one's connection to it.
John 15:5 " I am the vine, you are the branches."
I never liked going to church. I think it was the people. I'm quite cautious around people. I never enjoyed watching football matches for the same reason. A sea of people, chanting with varying degrees of conviction. Getting riled up over something they can't see. Surrendering to a force greater than themselves.
Have they picked the right team? Is there a right team? Why would there be?
Am I looking for answers or more questions?
37 comments
Good post.
It's the human condition to search for spirituality.
Come to the Anglican,other traditional , or Catholic Churches, there are alot less people in them now in Western countries. In the Far East they are full, but that's too far from your place this Sunday!
With you there Dan. I've never been at ease in gatherings where one voice demands everyone's attention, unless it's to make me laugh, dance, or listen to music I've paid to listen to. In other words I'm pretty sure I'm going to enjoy it. Top up on what makes you happy and try to be with people that do that too.
Maybe the answer to a lot of things is just recognising your true nature and what makes you tick.
I've never experienced anyone else coming up with any answers to my problems other than me. It's so annoying not to mention quite hard and sometimes it takes longer than we want it to. Not that there is an ultimate answer, just a series of unfortunate incidents that we maybe just have to learn to deal with.
One of the truest things I've ever heard is that people usually do what suits their purposes.
I always find it really strange when people thank god for what they have or their achievements because they don't tell him off when something goes wrong, they blame themselves and then say sorry to him.
He's the ultimate puppet master but I have issues with his string pulling quite a lot of the time.
Depend on yourself, you certainly seem pretty well rounded and intelligent. The world needs and likes folks like you.
Ah, Fizzy, that's because we have the Devil , nature and our own stupid actions to blame for the bad stuff.
There are some nice looking churches around here.
How did you find lessons at school? There was a lot of attention-demanding there.
Dan, put that comment back up, it was elegantly put. Use it in a major work, I wish I'd come up with it!
Ummmm, I can only remember the odd teacher that held my attention. For the most part they were totally unfit for purpose or clearly jaded in their role. The rest were gifts to brighten our day through ridicule.
Demanding attention is such a turn off, I want to be engaged and that is a rare quality.
How about you?
Cath you know I love you but this insistance of blaming others is not very responsible;)
;)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=njubtwoyejM
Frankie
I reckon the Devil is just someone whose thoughts have been ground into darkness through ignorance, bad circumstances, lack of love or they're just phschopathic by biology.
That song made me laugh. You old crooner.
My Dad loved ol Blue Eyes.
What's not to love? Who has a voice like him today?
I quite like lectures, although these days I try and watch them on x2 speed, an option that sadly wasn't available at school.
"I find it hard to blame God. When you have to create enough water to sustain seven billion people, some of them are going to drown in it."
That said, why blame anyone?
How true and perhaps there is devilry in all of us.
Oh if only there had been. Mind you I think there'd have been a mass exodus from school at lunchtime pretty much every day.
I think I'd enjoy education more as an adult and I guess it's more interesting if you've chosen your subjects and have an end goal in sight to apply to work etc.
I think all three of us are lifetime learners. A good thing to be.
Yeah I reckon he really needs to get with the programme and upgrade his irrigation system a bit really.
If I can rig one up from B&Q in my garden I'm sure with all his connections he could cobble one together that's a lot less 'random' man.
If he worked where I do he'd never have got past a rudimentary quality check. That's the trouble with big bosses, they think they can get away with anything.
He's so last century and yes I do blame him entirely!;)
Yep, all have to have a bit of a dance with him sometimes.
Imagine if there were no plagues, disasters, cancer etc through history. Can you imagine the overpopulation we would have by now?
If I was God I'd tackle the problem quite differently. All my plagues would be very humane, not long winded, grotesque, agonising, inflictions randomly infecting anyone, in fact I would make sure that only effected ba$tards.
All illnesses would be cured if you adopted a stray animal and were kind to it, and once a population looked like it was getting a bit full, I'd probably stop people believing it was a sin to take contraception.
But then again Gods definitely male because he just has to make such a big fuss about things and make them all so difficult. He probably likes all the resulting prayers he gets asking for cures and salvation ;)
I don't think there would be enough food in the world for the stray animals, due to too many people, and they'd probably get eaten.
I'm with Running on empty here. There seems no reason to think that God could have done a better job, or a worse job. Without death, there'd be no life.
(maybe)
Ahhh, I didn't say people couldn't die, just not have illnesses as in nasty long suffering ones.
When your time was up, you'd just drift off in your sleep.
Any thoughts on all those extra prayers he gets through making us suffer? Is he a bit of a megalomaniac?
I don't think God brings the suffering. It's disease etc, I'm an applied scientist, we had to learn alot of illnesses in pathology class.
Ive found prayers to be effective on many occasions.
Just wondering, what do people actually worship him for, if he's seemingly not able to control anything, is responsible for nothing, and has no selective processes of punishment or reward?
Creating the universe and doing miracles. I believe there is reward and punishment. I hope I don't get punished too badly. Hopefully I've been punished enough in this life, just like a prisoner on remand getting some time off his sentence for time already served.
I guess it makes sense to a lot of people to give the Universe a maker. It's too vast to either explore or know much about from our teeny weeny little planet.
I understand the concept of being punished until you're good enough to go to heaven, but I just can't see the point of it. Why can't we all just be there, in our super nice states, having a great time from day one, forever. It's almost like we're a horrible little amusement for him.
I don't approve of that and I don't think he plays fair either, some folks have awful lives, or is that the point, to see how we bare our pain? Blimey that makes me like him even less. Maybe he needs a spell down here to get a taste of what he puts us lot through;)
I love it that you do believe though. It's good to wrestle over eternal unknowns.
Yes, I have childlike faith . It's got me through alot, that and my friends.
If everyone went to Heaven, would you be happy sharing it with unrepentant major criminals?
If I accepted there was a Heaven, there'd be a Hell for them to go to though.
Either that or they'd have to be reborn again to learn some more lessons......
Hence why some people say 'Life is Hell on earth' I suppose.
Are people that lead good lives but don't believe in him allowed into heaven?
I believe there is a classic Christian view that you have to believe in God to go to heaven although Pope Francis seems to coax atheists, saying that if they live good, conscientious lives then when they finally meet God, he may show them mercy.
I like the idea of a merciful God like this.
I have an app on the iPad that tells me of incidents and emergencies in our region. Every day there are fires and rescues etc. I pray as I clear each incident, for God to help them, also when I hear of injury or death on the news, I pray the same for people all over the world, of any faith or no faith. I ask God to help them. When my daughter and I hear an ambulance, we do the same.
Dan, I'm really chuckling right now. I'm just imagining me having a meet n greet with God. I'd obviously be overwhelmed n all that, but I'm still grappling with why I have to ask for forgiveness just because I didn't believe in him beforehand. In my mind I've been good enough to get to Heavens gate without his guidance, and I haven't even been bothering him with loads of prayers or requests or anything. I'd doubtless start arguing with him about his worship complex and being too needy and he'd just boot me out for another round of life.
When people imagine what it would be like to meet God, they sometimes come up with scenarios like this. Some people might thank him for giving them such a nice life. Some people might tell him a joke... and then realise that he's God so he would already know the punchline. Stephen Fry wants to ask him indignantly why he allows bone cancer in children.
Your expectation that you would get booted out is interesting. Did you find that you used to argue with your parents and they'd boot you out of the room? My hope would be that if you complained to God about his worship complex, he would be able to explain why he has one.
The "another round of life" idea sounds like reincarnation although you could also look at it as a refund. You complain about the product and the manufacturer gives you a new one.
I'd imagine his answer to children suffering would be something like "I set that particular bar very high by having my own son crucified, so stop griping".
Yes I did sometimes get sent to my room. Mind you, the only time I considered it a punishment was when I'd eaten all the icing sugar and Mum didn't have any left over to ice her freshly baked cake. I was furious because I couldn't watch Come Dancing. In protest a wrote 'I Hate Mum and Dad Sometimes' on the hall wallpaper (in ink) I'm still impressed with how reasonable I was being by including the word 'Sometimes' at the end.
I like the idea of a complaints procedure and some kind of recompense, but can you imagine the length of the queue? I definitely wouldn't qualify for an upgrade anyway. Guess I'd just have to come back and do the same life but just try to do it better.
Wonder what we'd all do differently if we could?
PS My Mum n Dad were very lovely and didn't even complain about having to redecorate. All Mum asked was if I regretted doing it.
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